【觀後感】Lex Fridman Podcast: Yuval Noah Harari

相信大家都有看到這兩天以色列與巴勒斯坦之間急遽升高的衝突了。隨著 IDF 的持續集結,血腥的地面作戰很可能會在未來一兩天內展開。

在持續關注即時戰況的同時,我想分享一下兩個月前 Lex Fridman 對以色列和巴勒斯坦問題做的四部影片,分別是
。訪談:以色列總理班傑明.納坦雅胡(Benjamin Netanyahu)。
。訪談:以色列歷史學家、《人類大歷史》等暢銷書作者尤瓦爾.諾瓦.赫拉利(Yuval Noah Harari)。
。訪談:巴勒斯坦作家、詩人穆罕默德.埃爾.庫德(Mohammed El-Kurd)。
。街訪:巴勒斯坦人民(四人)

說實話七月底四部影片剛推出的時候,我有完整看完的只有對 Harari 的訪談,其他都基於各種原因沒能看到最後,也許是價值觀的巨大差異,或是觀看體驗太過於痛苦。

但總之,現在分享這個是因為在 Harari 訪談中有一段令我印象深刻。內容大致如下:

Lex:
I wonder if there will be a future where the majority of people: Arab, and Jew, Israeli and Palestanian, accept the one state solution and say we want equal rights.

Harari:
Never say never in history. But it's not coming anytime soon from either side. But when you look at the long chain of history, one of the curious thing you see is that different nationals and religious groups, even if they hate each other, surprisingly, they sometimes end by merging.

If you look at Germany for instance, for centuries, you had Prussians (普魯士), Bavarians (巴伐利亞人), and Saxons (撒克遜人) fought each other ferociously and hated each other. And there are sometimes also different religions: Catholics (天主教), Protestants (新教). The worst war in European history, according to some measures, was not WWI or WWII, it was the thirty years war, waged largely on German soil.

But eventually, they united to form a single country. You saw the same thing in Britain, English and Scotts hated and fought each other for centuries, eventually coming together (maybe they'll break up again, idk). The power of merger in history, you are very often influenced by the people you fight and hate more than almost anyone else.

當時聽到這裡的我深受震撼:我們在思考以色列巴勒斯坦(以及一海票其他阿拉伯國家)、印度巴基斯坦等經年累月下錯縱複雜的衝突與仇恨時,往往會感到很無力,覺得每一種方式都行不通,看不見和平與和解的曙光。但也許實際上,這種情形人類史上比比皆是,而且並不是每一次遇到這種狀況,最終都只能藉由大規模的清洗和恐怖統治來解決。

當然,在下無論是對以巴衝突還是歐陸史,都沒有足夠的了解來找出通往和平的答案(很可能世界上也沒有人真的知道答案,而當前的情勢無疑又更雪上加霜)。但也許歷史中,真有著能夠改善局勢的想法或洞見。

註:雖然人們常用「人類從歷史中學到的唯一教訓,就是人類不會從歷史中學到教訓」表達對「人類一再重複相同的錯誤」感到的挫敗感。但人類一再重複相同的錯誤,其實並不必然代表人類沒有從歷史中學到教訓。只是那些學到了教訓的人做的事,比如維持和平,被人們當成理所當然的事罷了(aka 倖存者偏差)。

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